not just because women are being impacted but because men are being impacted and said when i talked about childbirth, there was a nurse there that said her husband saved her life because she was hemorrhaging after giving birth and it was her husband advocating to doctors on her behalf that helped her get through that and saying, men, when your wife is giving birth or sister or your mother are impacted by this, you have to step up and be part of it. >> all right. absolutely, yamiche alcindor, thank you very much for that. that's going to do it for me. "deadline: white house" is starting right now too. hi, everyone. happy wednesday. it's 4:00 in new york. it seems that nothing triggers the ex-president like the sometimes icky frequently your honor comfortable always compelling testimony of the woman whose story trump tried so very hard to cover up, that he

ended up getting indicted. newly released court transcripts show his outbursts earned him a stern rebuke from judge juan merchan. judge merchan saying to trump's attorney, todd blanchethis, i understand that your client is upset at this point, but he is cursing audibly, and he is shaking his head visually, and that's contemptuous and has the potential to intimidate the witness and the jury can see that. trump's attorney, mr. blanche, quote, i will talk to him. judge mer shonn speaking to the court, so i am speaking at the bench because i don't want to embarrass him. >> mr. blanche, i will talk to him. the judge, you need to speak to him. i won't tolerate that. mr. blanche, i will talk to him. now, one of the moments that inspired that and angered trump so much was stormy daniels' description of part of their encounter in a hotel room in

2006. for reference here's how she described it on camera for "60 minutes" in all its cringeworthy glory. >> it started off all about him, just talking about himself and he's, like, have you seen my new magazine? >> he was showing you his own picture on the cover -- >> right, right. >> i said, does this normally work for you? and he looked very taken back like he didn't understand. does talking about yourself normally work. someone should take that magazine and spank you with it and i'll never forget the look on his face and he was like -- >> what was the look. >> i don't think anyone has ever spoken to him like that especially a young woman who looked like me and i said, you know, give me that and i just remember him going, you wouldn't. hand it over. and so he did and i was like, turn around, drop them. >> you told donald trump to turn around and take off his pants.

>> yes. >> and did he? >> yes. >> so he turned around and pulled his pants gown a little. he had underwear on and stuff and i gave him a couple swats. >> so that happened. here's how judge merchan described trump's reaction when trump -- when stormy daniels recounted that moment in front of the jury yesterday. quote, one time i noticed when ms. dams was testifying about rolling up the magazine and presumably smacking your client, and after that point, he shook his head and he looked down. and later, i think he was looking at you, mr. blanche, later when we were talking about the apprentice, at that point he again uttered a vulgarity and looked at you this time. please talk to him at the break. stormy daniels' stunning testimony led to a push by donald trump's defense lawyers for a mistrial and judge merchan did decide to strike some of the things she said, but stormy daniels' testimony on the stand yesterday provides a critical piece of the puzzle in a case that alleges a cover-up of hush

money paid to hide her story, a story that went right to one of candidate trump's biggest political vulnerabilities, a story that includes the sordid details stormy daniels described before the jury yesterday. in a motion, this story, your honor, her account is highly probative of the defendant's intent, his intent and his motive in paying this off, and making sure that the american public did not hear this before the election. it is precisely what the defendant did not want to become public. now, stormy daniels is set to return to the stange tomorrow to continue with her cross-examination and most likely a redirect by the prosecutors setting the stage for another key witness. "the new york times" reports this in the weeks ahead mr. cohen is expected to take the stand and connect the dots between the salacious details and the substantive documents.

testimony from the woman paid for her silence highlighting trump's potential criminal intent in the trump election interference hush money trial is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. lucky for us we have a full table. yasmine very -- vsubian and, katie, you've been covering this for "the new york times" and john howlman is here. he made a glorious late hollywood entrance. >> i sit in the basement of the courthouse and it's hard to get out. >> you're excused. also joining us former top official at the department of justice, andrew weissmann. speaking of sleeping in basement, no one can claim more times these days than andrew weissmann. >> if you've seen his apartment, it's no big -- >> i meant here. i want to put the elephant in

the middle of the table. stormy daniels' testimony is provoking, and i think tapping into all sorts of gender disparities how she was received, socioeconomic disparities. i think there's a thing -- i said this yesterday, i felt bad after reading her testimony about her life story for sort of shorthanding her, porn star stormy daniels. she is a human being. she had this interaction with trump. everything about it is the kind of stuff that, i mean, you and i talked days ago about being uncomfortable -- pre-stormy daniels. this is the stuff and i keep thinking about everything trump did from the amount of money he paid to the sound of trump on tape saying to go and, you know, cash, cash, cash, no, no, no. to pecker's agreement and line in the sand, i won't be a bank. i keep thinking of everything

she said in the context of how desperate trump was for us not to know it. >> that's why i also think we can't overlook the testimony we heard yesterday morning as well from the publisher using donald trump's own words against him, right, because in that testimony, you see a man, hear of a man who is a billionaire trying to teach the rest of america how to also be a billionaire. how to pinch every penny down to the paetsch clip, he says, right. sign every check. know where every check is going. and then you hear this account from stormy daniels, a detailed account that he continues to deny about meeting in 2006, about having sex the night after they met. continued conversations for eight months after the visit to trump tower. how she was then threatened in a parking lot outside of an exercise class with her daughter. and then, of course, the whole scheme that was concocted by michael cohen and her attorney at the time and her agent and

connecting those two and then wondering if the jury, in fact, believes the account of stormy daniels, and then if they say to themselves, yes, i believe her, then they think back to the man they heard about early that morning, right, because every day i feel like it's a different trial and what i mean by that is every day, the testimony can stand on its own. they think back to the testimony from the punisher in the morning and think, well, this is a man who pinches every penny. why would he pay michael cohen $420,000 to cover his taxes, to double the payment he already made because he wanted to cover up something beyond just legal expenses, right, and that is why i keep going back to the paperwork, right? we've talked continuously as we've kind of led up to this moment where we felt the star witness was going to be stormy

daniels and michael cohen, right, but the smoking gun who is going to be michael cohen is the guy who knows if donald trump said to him, we got to pay her because i don't want the voter or electorate to ever know. he is a problematic star witness but the paper trail, the papers, right, the documents, the signed checks, the invoices, all of those things are what are ultimately going to tell the story and convince this jury as to whether or not they believe donald trump is guilty or not and that is why yesterday's testimony was so stunning. i will say, the end of the direct from hoffinger in which she brought up that truth social tweet from donald trump in which he said i never met this woman. we were never together. who is this crazy person? after all of that detailed testimony completely contradicting all of what stormy daniels had just detailed and it was this really, i think, at least for the prosecution powerful closer before they moved to cross.

>> kate, there's always sort of a debate about whether his lawyers are lawyering or sort of talent managers in their own right and it was clear yesterday when judge merchan said i can't do all the objecting for you that judge merchan was slightly underwhelmed by the lawyering. >> yes, i certainly think that when he said that he was putting the impetus on them to say, you need to come out and object to the things you're having problems with. i think they believe that they had worked some of these details out ahead of time and didn't need to do so much but certainly i think he is really putting -- really putting that pressure on them to take a stand when they think there's something problematic and i certainly think that even judge merchan said there should have been things that may have been better left unsaid as this testimony was incredibly vivid and incredibly detailed, but, again, you know, really putting that pressure on trump's lawyers to do something and then as you said, further keep their client

in order and not have him step over the line of the gag order and enter into witness intimidation. >> he sustained even when there wasn't an objection. he said sustained and we were like did somebody object. he said i sustained when you weren't even objecting. this is on you to make these objections if you feel as if they're going in a direction this which you don't want to go. these are details that are extraneous and not necessary to testimony. >> you know, andrew, i think, again, this was testimony that was experienced totally different if you saw it and heard it than if you read it on the page and on the page it was clear that the act and the story she would tell if she were free to talk to the media was exactly what he paid to suppress, so as someone in my line of work i thought it was interesting to understand what he didn't want people to hear between the drop of "access hollywood" and election day 2016. such a compressed period and his political crisis has been entered into evidence from the

c-span tape guy and i thought that the idea that she was telling the whole story of how she ended up in his hotel room, how the sex went down, the power disparity she felt, the important point she made several times that she didn't feel threatened physically by him ever was part of what he was paying $130,000 to make sure not a single voter heard between the drop of "access hollywood" and the election, but it seems to have created a lot of churn and sort of legal circles. so explain that to me. >> well, i mean i think that has that exactly right which is i keep on analogizing her and with all due respect to her and her point that she is a human being and a person with a life story is that for the purposes of this trial, she is largely not entirely but largely an exhibit meaning this is the story. what you are hearing is what would have been made public in october of 2016 but for the hush

money payments and these are the hush money payments that hope hicks has already testified donald trump told hope hicks essentially, thank goodness that michael cohen paid it, otherwise, this would have been something we would have to have dealt with before the election, not afterwards, so the story is actually one where you don't actually need to know whether it is truthful or not, although obviously the jury and us in the public are interested in that, but for the purposes of the trial, it is really just is this the story that they had an interest in suppressing and creating these false business records to cover up the suppression? and just going back for a second to the judge merchan intro that you had where he basically said, you know, tell your client to clam up in front of the jury, i think it's really important to

note here that, you know, we're operating in two planes. there's sort of the political plane, and there's the trial plane, and it is important to know that if donald trump, he obviously is a criminal on the criminal plane. he does not have to testify. he has an absolute right not to. it cannot be used against him, but he has a right to testify. so, if he wants to hop on the stand and testify that she is a liar, he has the right to do that, and if you look at this from the political lens, you know, all of us are saying, gee, maybe she's not telling the truth, well, you know what, he has the ability to testify under oath subject to cross-examination that it is not true this the same way that she has now testified under oath that it is true, and until he were to testify, this is unrebutted in the political sphere. so, you know, this is one where he may want to get his story out

by muttering under his breath but this is one where, you know, if he really, you know, can put his upon where his mouth is, you know what, if you really think this didn't happen, you have a right to testify and be subject to cross-examination on that issue. >> we know he's on tape talking about exactly how the money would be moved to her and just moving into what the jury heard and what they thought of it, again, i'm not a lawyer, you're not a lawyer so this is a perfect part for you and i to have together. i think the point is if you are uncomfortable listening to her story, if you made -- that's why he paid $130,000 to make sure you and the american electorate never heard that story from the swatting to the condom to the stds -- whatever you felt most appalled by, that was worth $130,000 to silence. >> yeah. and i agree with andrew, this

is -- there is a legal realm and there is a political realm. i don't really think that anybody believes him does anybody believe he didn't do this? nobody believes -- i'm sure there's somebody. >> sure. >> they're out there. >> there is so someone that -- >> jim jordan believes trump. >> in that period you just talked about in october which i remember vividly 2016 there was this parade of women who came forward and accused him of sexual assault and sexual misconduct and denied all of them. all of them. every single one, didn't matter. there were some of those women had detailed accounts. some had less detailed accounts. some were more credible. some less credibility. their posture out of "access hollywood," we'll deny every single one of them and attack every single one of them. at the time and now i'm not sure that many people then believed him, even the people would voted for him.

i think a lot looked at donald trump and thought, yeah, of course, donald trump has catted around, you know, and now these women are mad and whatever but i don't think the fundamental question was whether he did this thing or not and in stormy daniels' case they met and took this picture and give archbishop everything else we know, journalistic evidence and the courtroom, i think the only -- the questions revolve around the thing you're getting at, nicolle, which is for a jury and for political -- sort of the two things come together is is it -- did he -- why did he do this, not why did he do the thing with stormy daniels but why did he decide to silence her? why did he do that and what was the effect of that and if that was an act of election subversion, that's one thing. if that was a guy who didn't want the world to know, his wife to know, anyone to know that he had an affair with an adult film actress, that's another thing and there is a whole other political thing of how much of this --

>> now. >> not then. >> i don't deny had this account had it come out in the fall in its full tawdry glory could have had some effect on the election? do you think it would have changed -- >> i don't know. a lot of people, joe was talking about it on "morning joe." people after monica lewinsky, bill clinton's approval ratings went up and i think a lot thought bill clinton was a dog and people in a different time related to interns and sexual harassment and people have different sensitivities. bill clinton, he is a scoundrel. a little of that has always been true with him. very close election. when we get to the end for the jury is not going to be litigating this -- in the end i think there are lawyers and andrew and i were talking earlier, there are lawyers think this is a mistake for the prosecution to put this on, because they didn't need to prove this. in the jury's mind thinking

about why. what was the motivation for doing the thing tass are in the record? this does illuminate the motivation because there is that thing you just pointed to, which is, wow, trump was thinking what this would sound like in a moment they were beating back most of these accusations when they were successfully politically beating back most of the accusations from these women might have been problematic. they were certainly terrified of it on the trump campaign across the board that a detailed account from one of these women that was credible would be the thing that would sink him. >> all right. we have so much more to get to and barely scratched the surface. no one goes anywhere. also to come the trump appointed judge in the mar-a-lago case has given the crimealy indicted ex-president a really big and long lifeline. what that means for that criminal case that's so rock solid. even bill barr said his goose was cooked. still important to have faith in the rule of law, we are told. while this current trump trial is going on his autocratic ways and that of his enablers are on full display, being propped up

by those allies on the right in prominent ways and we'll show you. later in the broadcast, robert f. kennedy jr., a third party candidate for president saying he has short and long-term memory difficulties in his own words because of a worm. we'll bring you all the -- talk about sordid. you know what we got today, heilman, stormy and worms -- >> eat the worm if you direct tequila. >> the reporter who broke that story about the dead worms in the brain, not the dog is joining us later in the broadcast. don't go anywhere. ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to see ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body

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we're back, yasmin, kate, john, and andrew. yasmin, it seems if the prosecution can make this turn and say whatever you experience while listening to stormy daniels on direct or cross-examination, which is expected to be just as brutal as it was when it started yesterday. >> yeah. >> when it picks up tomorrow, and i'm sure is in part client directed, however awful you feel, that's what he didn't want the voters to feel and they've already entered into evidence trump at a podium saying i lose 5%, i lose wisconsin. i mean, he -- it's not about what anybody thinks of stormy daniels. she's in his room because he brings her there. she has sex with him because he wants to. but whatever you think of that story, that's the story that he broke laws to hide. >> well, and that's why they walked through the time line with all of the other witnesses leading up to stormy daniels' testimony as well, right? we heard about the release of the "access hollywood" tape,

hope hicks kind of painting this man who was desperate to win an election in november and "access hollywood" comes out and they're desperate to make sure that they deny, deny, deny as she said in her testimony, october 26th, the reach out, keith davidson, michael cohen talking about karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. i mean, everything was coming to fruition in the final weeks leading up to november. he yet didn't have the confidence to know he could actually win this election. he thought back to this alleged involvement with stormy daniels. if this comes out, if she recounts the story he told on the stand yesterday, coming from this adult film actress, her storied past or checkered past or history and think about the elector rat coming out to pull the lever for him to vote in his favor and so then it speaks to what heileman was talking about in the last segment, that motivation and that is what i think and that is one of the reasons why i think the main reasons why the prosecution put her on the stand, to really kind of show the jury the motivation

and i have to say watching that jury, i mean, if i can just paint a quick picture for you of that courtroom, stormy daniels is a mere two feet away from the jury box, and there's about two feet of wood between her and then she has to peek around that corner to see donald trump so at one point they said can you identify the defendant in the room, donald j. trump and she said, yeah, i think he's here and in a cute way peers around the wood and then points at donald trump and, like, it seemed somewhat awkward, nervous way. but the jury was intently listening to her. all of their bodies were turned towards her throughout that entire explanation of that night back in 2006, and their sexual encounter, and it wasn't until judge juan merchan started to chide her for reasons of speaking out of turn or not necessarily answering the question correctly or kind of adding all these extra details that the jury said to themselves, it seemed to me as if the energy i was getting from them, they seemed to be less

interested until cross-examination, but the motivation, i think, from the prosecution is what was really the thing they wanted to put forward with her testimony. >> and the lack of interest and discomfort are hard to decipher. >> right. >> there's something uncomfortable -- look how hope hicks was speaking, judge merchan had to tell her to speak up and slee cried and there was a flood of sympathy for an ex-model like hope hickss. stormy daniels, her mother disappeared when she was 17. a good student of veterinary medicine and hers was a story of someone in a very different socioeconomic bracket who turned to nude modeling and adult films to make money and she did it -- she danced shgz shoo said on the weekends because she could stay in school. the reaction whether disinterest or discomfort to someone of a different socioeconomic bracket is interesting and i don't

expect you to have an answer and won't put you on the spot to answer it but stormy daniels is on the stand because donald trump summoned her to his hotel room. his bodyguard, keith trump in her phone stood outside the door while he stripped down in hicks boxers twice, once to be spanked and the second to have sex with her and i guess what i'm wondering is what is your sense of whether the prosecution was deterred by what yasmin describes as disinterest or discomfort from her testimony? >> that's such an interesting question and it's so hard to know what your point, this was a calculated choice on their part to want to put her as a witness, as many former prosecutors have said maybe that wasn't necessary but they thought that by putting her as a witness they likely thought that there was a value

to be gained, and, you know, whether that was a good calculus or not is something yet to be seen but i think to your point, you know, she really got on the stand, she talked at length and gave vivid detail about her background and even if she eventually got pulled in and reined in by the judge then the defense team had a difficult opportunity at that point to cross-examine her and really in a sense go after her for things that i think it was kind of a thought from reporters in the courtroom that at that point she rehabilitated herself in some ways. >> you said you bought a ranch. she's like i rented a ranch. what were they trying to prosecute her on, being rich or being poor? >> i think they -- in their cross-examination which we will see more of tomorrow, they tried to get at things which normally a defense attorney would get at in a court of law, like you haven't paid a court judgment in

this case, the defamation money that's owed to trump as part of an extra lawsuit out there, and i think they were trying to get at, you have this money. you have the ability to pay, but it was in such a roundabout way and after the testimony she had already given about her humble upbringings and i think that at this point i think was seen by some as potentially allowing her to rehabilitate of whatever good will might have been lost. >> which andrew can probably speak to this which i thought was kind of risky for the defense in their cross in going after her in a way that they can also speak to their own client about, right, going after her social media post, going after the fact she's not necessarily paying off some of these judgments, lying, right, these are all things that donald trump has also been accused of, right, that the prosecution can then turn on donald trump if, in

fact, he decides to take the stand and/or if they decide to do it in redirect. i don't know. it seemed risky to me at times they were accusing -- remember the one exchange where they brought up one of stormy's tweets and she called donald trump a name, orange whatever, and she said, well, he did it first, you know, it was this back and forth as if we were back in high school and they were going at each other but acting somewhat similarly. >> i mean, andrew, weigh in. i feel like the best case prosecuted against donald trump in public view was the january 6th select committee and what they did was wallpapered witness after witness after witness after witness after witness who voted for trump, liked trump and told the same story about trump. did he know he lost. yes, did he know he lost, i told him, i told him. i told him. did he know the fraud claims were bs. bill barr, yes, i told him they were bs. they all loved trump and all told the same story. pecker comes in and says was he

worried about melania, no, he never mentioned melania. keith davidson, did he want to keep stormy daniels quiet, no, reached a crescendo after "access -- they're all taking a different shake of the kaleidoscope of the same exact story. "access hollywood" drops, he's desperate to not prove whether or not he's teflon don yet. he's desperate for the story not to get out as uncomfortable and sort of lewd as some of those details are so sends michael cohen in there to shut him up and pecker says he won't pay. no one has told a different version of that story so just explain to me if it's not sort of personal, what is the strategy for coming after stormy daniels as viciously as the defense did yesterday? >> well, first i agree with you that the case really is that, it's different witnesses from different vantage points and to yasmin's point some of those, quote, witnesses are the documents, which are

devastating, i mean exhibits 35 and 36, the handwritten notes from allen weisselberg and jeff mcconney are devastating where they detail exactly what we're going to hear from michael cohen which, of course, he didn't foe they were writing those notes at the time so it's incredible corroboration, the cover-up part of the scheme which is really the key charge in the case. so there is this sort of multiple layering and, you know, the jury is going to be asked what is that consistent with? consistent with the story that we have laid out as to what happened here and that michael cohen has told you or is it consistent with the defense, which is none of this happened, but there's no witness and there's no evidence of that and all of the evidence is going to point in the other way, so, you know, just to be fair to the defense here, you know, a lot of times, you know, you have a hand that's dealt and you just try and, you know, poke holes and distract, because there isn't a consistent theory, because the facts point to guilt.

but you have an obligation to the system and your client to hold the, you know, hold the prosecution to its burden, and i just want to pick up on something you've been discussing, particularly john on this issue of, like, is it a mistake in terms of how stormy daniels was presented and i've been thinking about this a lot, like, whether, you know, the prosecution should have been a little bit more arm's length and present it as this is her story, but, you know, you don't need to believe it and i was just thinking, that may be strategically was perhaps if you were in a civil case, you might think strategically that was the way to play it, but i was thinking about the different role that a prosecutor has here, which is to present -- if you believe the witness, to present her story to the jury. >> yeah, and that, i mean, i think i think it's so triggering for trump and it triggers --

everyone that watched it had a different experience of it and people that saw it and heard it reacted differently than people that simply read it. i simply read it. thank you all so much. thanks for being here at the table. yasmin and kate, so nice to see you. back in court tomorrow? >> yes. >> nice to have you here. we're glad you're there. >> i'll be out there. >> our eyes and ears. [ laughter ] >> yasmin like on day two i think it was like one of the lawyers said i hope my parents aren't watching and that was pre-stormy is there by the way, they were watching. [ laughter ] >> coming up, donald trump's legal strategy and all the criminal cases, he has so many, has been delay, delay, delay, now the trump appointed judgeover seeing the classiied documents case has bought that strategy hook, line, and sinker. we'll tell you about it judge. i, local life and cultural treasures.

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recipes. recipes written by hand and lost to time. are now being analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. ♪ the trump appointed judge overseeing donald trump's criminal classified documents case has now indefinitely postponed any trial. judge aileen cannon had originally set a date for later this month but she said there are too many pretile issues to set a new trial date at all ever. here's former trump white house attorney tc -- ty cobb over that. >> all she's done is make official what everybody including jack smith already through which is she had no ink tension of getting this case to trial and she wasn't competent to get this case to trial.

the things she has done here are really inexplicable and it's tragic. she talks about the -- having honored the public's interest in the administration of justice by postponing the trial. you know, she has not honored the public's interest, you know, for one day in this case. >> we're back with john and andrew. john, this isn't a political statement what i'm about to say. she's not presided over many trials at all. i think one or two. she's not presided over any that dealt with classified materials which is a thing of its own. why did jack smith not seek to change the jurisdiction immediately? >> oh, my god. you'll have to ask andrew that i don't know that. all i know, this -- for donald trump, he's had a lot of like crazy luck in his life but, man, this issic loo the equivalent of me getting a scratch ticket and hitting the jackpot because it's a random assignment. trump, the luckiest thing that's ever happened in this legal

realm. pure luck, right? i don't know what jack -- look, if jack smith had the capacity to get this venue changed, i defer to andrew would knows way more about what's possible there, and what might have been going on in jack smith's head, if he had a possibility of doing that it was pretty obvious in the beginning to most of us this was not going to end well, and one of the things that's clear as we sit here today, i had no doubt we wouldn't get to that before election day but even if you're delusional you can't see a way where that will happen. this is the most open and shut of the cases. there's just no world in which trump has any defense because of the laws and obviously in some ways doesn't have a lot of the problems that the new york case does in terms of actual relevance to actually being president. you can't argue personal conduct in that case. >> so, i think i have said this to you in the makeup room. i don't know if you watched this season of "curb" but if you

missed -- you're like, why is he with her, i felt that way about jack smith and aileen cannon, the search warrant becomes a legal mess and the beginning of this case's existence ends up before a very conservative circuit court and then ends up at a special master in brooklyn because she botched it. never a lawyer, never worked at the justice department but seemed to me it was ill-fated if your goal was to hold him accountable for the crimes you've indicted him for. >> you know, i actually as you know, i'm somebody -- i will tell you if i think the department of justice made a mistake but i actually don't think that jack made a mistake here. i think he played it straight. i've been on high-profile cases where the issue is what venue should you pick, and the overarching issue is to play it

straight. where are the facts that sort of form the crime? where did they occur? just, you know, that principle is in the koshs that you should be tried where the crime occurred, and here only in the district where judge cannon is one of three judges is locus for all of the crimes charged. some of the crimes might have been charged elsewhere but not all of them, and there's no question that the gravamen, all of the facts are ones that could all be charged in that district and so there was going to be a one out of three chance under the wheel, you know, as it gets spun randomly she got the case, and the real issue here, i think, is not really jack smith, it is -- it is judge cannon. it is -- it is just truly a disgrace that she is not doing her job. you pointed out, nicolle, that

she couldn't even handle the search warrant. she was reversed not once, but twice over that. she had to get another federal judge to be the special master when she could have just rolled up her sleeves and done the work. and now her decision says, well, there are a lot of pending motions, that's why i need to take more time. well, i have another idea. decide them. i mean, this is not a complicated case, and so i agree with ty cobb that she just put in writing what we all knew was going to happen, but what she put in writing is really sort of a testament to at the very least incompetence and some might say much worse than that, which is something that you don't want to see in a judge, which is a bias for one side or the other. so, i really think that's where the -- you know, where the problem is in this case. >> that's why i deferred to

andrew. >> and i guess i have to sneak if a break but my question for both of you so what now? this is the case that is -- how about it, so bad that ty cobb and bill barr talking about how much legal doo-doo trump is in and nobody thinks anything will happen. we have to sneak in a quick break. it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer

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you know, i -- you know, this is one where it is very hard. i've gotten so many questions, whether it's on my podcast or just elsewhere about, you know, can't you remove her? can't you appeal? can't you do something called a mandamus and it's really hard to get a judge removed, and, you know, it should be hard to get a judge removed. you can't just be, like, i just don't like their rulings, the person should be off, and one of the key pieces of data that we don't have is what is she doing in the classified setting, because that's not information we have. it's happening under seal between the parties. we don't know if there's ammunition there that jack smith could use to seek to remove her from the case because of some egregious error. i do think that what she is doing is trying not to issue rulings at all so that there's less that she can be removed

for, and it's very hard to remove a judge just from -- because of inaction, so she's sort of skillfully, sort of, avoiding the problem of how to get her off the case, and so, you know, i don't think, bottom line is i don't think between now and the election that this case, which i agree with john is the strongest case and is incredibly serious to this nation's national security, is going to see the light of day, because of this judge doing the wrong thing and not upholding the public's right to a speedy trial. >> i think when the kids do it it's called quiet quitting but she, of course, is a judge. >> abdication. >> absent indication? >> here's what -- i love the movie "dave" where it's a could-do, budge et, smudge-it.

you could call several people and say, hey, we had hoped this case would be adjudicated ahead of election day so the voters would understand that the kind of people you value, the kind of people, mark milley, you send into battle, the kind of people, jim mattis, you still revere, and the silence you kept to honor them, that he endangers. sue gordon, the stars behind you at the cia, everything you kay about is on the line in donald trump conduct. that trial will not happen, the jury will not hear -- >> at least not before election day. >> if you kay about the things you spent your career caring about, you will talk to the country about why this matters. >> you have moved into a it seems to mely different realm, which is related, but unrelated in the sense we're living in the realm of campaign tactics.

>> it's just the world we live in. >> i don't disagree. i'm saying there's a question of what happens now in the court, and then what does the biden campaign are they able to do? are they able to make something out of this case? i this that question you just posed -- i wasn't dismissing it, but it's almost unrelated. you wanted to get all the people you listed to enlist them in the cause, because they all know firsthand in their hearts and heads that donald trump is a threat to office. you would have thought that all -- you could muster all of them to come out. i assume and know a bit that's the biden campaign will try to do. man, the fact that it's not going to trial is way more important. >> what the right depends on, is people will be deflated and defeated. if you remind people, the only people that will judge these facts are the voters, it seems

like a -- >> then if you add in all the other cases, you really -- you've got to not be defeated here. >> if you care about coup. john heilemann, so glad to see you. andrew weissmann, thank you so much. trump still has a problem with nikki haley voters, and we'll talk about it next. voterd we'll talk about it next and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms,

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another election day in our country. in the disgraced twice impeached ex-president has essentially had the republican presidential field to himself. he's had the nomination clinched since march, but that doesn't stop one in five voters voting for nikki haley yesterday. hallie dropped out nine weeks ago, how embarrassing. that, as politico puts it, trump's campaign from flashing red warning signs. she cleaned up in the suburbs. we'll keep an eye on this nikki haley voters and those flashing red lights for donald trump. up next for us, with the criminal trial, what it relegals about his authoritarian impulses. t his authoritarian impulses ...but they can be remade in a whole new way. thanks to you... we're getting bottles back... and we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic.

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president trump has done nothing wrong here, and he continues to bed target of

endless law-fare. it has to stop. you'll see the congress address this in every possible way we can. we need accountability. ultimately at the end of the day, it's bigger that president trump. it's about the people's faith in our system of justice. all these cases need to be dropped. they're a threat to our entire system. yes, the cases are the threat, now the guy seeking to destroy the rule of law. hi again, everybody. out of all the things you heard come out of the mouth of the current speaker unfortunate house is that, it's about the people of america. for our very democracy to continue, people need the reassurance that the rule of law exists. they need to believe that every one of es is held to the same standard and there are consequences for committing crimes. what we have seen in response to the first ever criminal trial of an american ex-president is

opposite. speaker johnson denying the president did anything wrong? comments made even more astounding when you hear the crime being discussed on tape, by trump. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. i spoke toally len about it. when it comes to the financial -- >> what financing? >> no, no, no. >> pay with cash, yes, things that people don't do that aren't crimes. they won't see publicly equally, kind of democracy, do we have right now? >> they have continually pushed autocrat irk practices,

tendencies, policies, chief among them. the ex-president is above any and all legal consequence, 'em actions committed on tape and in full view of aides and the public. the trial is putting on display another sign of the world's autocrats. that's the fine art of misogyny. one clear implication is that for trump, this was nothing unusual. he simply expected that if a woman was around him, he was getting laid. not without content, but not entirely without it, either. after all, as trump said in the "access hollywood" state, when you're a star, they let you do it. failry rankled because it lan against his usual pattern, leaving the people with the

starkest of choices come november. rachel maddow mused about that on this program yesterday. >> jimmy carter almost lost in 1976, because he had committed lust in his heart, but this is who we're thinking about putting back in the white house now, along with what he's threatened to do to the country, in part out of anger for the criminal liability that he has brought on himself by trying to cover up things like this, behavior like this, character like this. i mean, it's -- she said today i have no shame, talking about her current choices. there's no reason she should. she's gotself determination. she given herself the career she was, but we can have shame. we can have shame about our political choices as a country about who we are elevating as america's fate to the world. today is just, i mean, none of us will ever get this taste out of our mouth. some of our favorite experts and friends. author of "strongmen" is here

with us. plus minnie is here, and charlie sykes joins us with me at the table, the host of the independent americans podcast, paul rykoff is back. ruth, i've been sending your tweets around all week, because you are peeling a layer off the story that nobody else is. just explain your views, let's start with yesterday what we saw yesterday, and the trump and response from republicans. >> you mean -- yeah, so, you know, i put a chapter of macheezmo in my book "strong men" because i saw no book that tau about misogyny at the glue.

not only is it a man that doesn't have to ask for consent in the political realm, it's a man who has all the women, who can do whatever he wants with female bodies as well. so, this is -- this is trump's brand, the lawless brute is his brand. that's what he's been selling since 2016. so, getting away with it has repercussions in the sphere of female rights and female dignity as well as politics. >> ruth, there's a lot of mythology around trump's political superman skills, that he survived, he was elected after "access hollywood." on one level trump didn't think that was true. that's why he paid to keep stormy daniels quiet. on the other, when you have the misogyny, and then the policy for the first time in 50 years, taking away women's rights to

make choice being their own body, does that land differently with the public? >> we see that even republican women are not fans of having their bodily autonomy taken away. you know, i have a line in "strongmen." that wonderfuler as much the enemies as much as prosecutors. this is a line through strongmen history. if we think about gender politician there's a triad, hyper-man klinity, misogyny, so you have to elevate certain kinds of men, you put welcome down, and then homophobia. only certain types of men can be acceptable. we're seeing all of that. we saw that during trump's presidency and we're seeing it now. >> minnie, we talk all the time about -- i think it's safe to

say even you're surprised about the political power behind what the supreme court did, and we always try to talk about the real effect on women now, but when you marry that reality that, for 50 years women had rights that they don't have today, and it is the first time we will go to the polls next november and have an election in that arena, and the story coming out of the trump campaign is trump getting rebuked by the judge for calling a witness who he had alleged sex with, you know, the word that rhymes with witch. how does the story sync up, or do they? >> they definitely sync up. i think what the professor just laid out is the perfect background. we look at strongmen, authoritarian regimes across the world, we see these stereotypes about playboys, womanizers, and we laugh about it, it couldn't

happened here. it's really hard to imagine how we got here, right? i worked for hillary clinton in 2016. i don't think it's an accident that donald trump in this very particular type of character rose to power against the first female nominee, so i think that's one thing in terms of the arc of how we got here. wyche talked about what it's really about, appeared attacks to freedom, and putting women providers in jail because of abortion demands, what's truly behind this? it's about power and control. when you think about the need for anti-abortion extremists to have a figurehead who can really enforce some of the most draconian bans in this country, it doesn't surprise me that that

person is donald trump and what we're seeing now is just an extension of his character, the arc of his career, his misogyny, it's all connected. it's almost like a regular republican wouldn't have been able to go this far. >> charlotte, there's although character, and the supreme court. there was a pulitzer on the ethical lapses on justice thomas and alito. the supreme court is extremely opaque, by design and by their own actions, what they seem to understand is the supreme court did this thing that took away a right we had for 50 years. it's heard lately that donald trump might be the first.

in this country to have absolute immunity, including s.e.a.l. team 6 being sent to assassinate a political enemy. >> apparently when you're an autocrat, they let you do that, right? that is his belief and that's what he's asking the supreme court to do. i think we need to focus on the character of donald trump and what we are seeing. the man is a pig who despises and using women, okay? so there's a lot of terminology we could use to apply to donald trump, but we've had a federal judge who said he is liable for rape. donald trump has made it clear throughout his entire life how he views women, how he uses women.

let's just put this around, because i know a lot of conservative, christian women who may consider themselves pro-life, and i continue to find it absolutely amazing that they look at donald trump and are absolutely not horrified and repelled. if there was anyone in their lives, in their circle, anyone who treated their mothers or sisters or daughters the way that donald trump routinely treats other women, they would be appalled. they would see this as somebody who is violated every basic principle, every idea of character and decency. so, i think, yes, we need to keep focusing on the autocratic impulses, and the views of hyper-masculinity to gait political power, but i think we ought to not lose sight of exactly what on a loathsome

character donald trump is and this incredible flood of sleaze that we are seeing. you pull back a bit, and you see the sleazy characters involved in the coverups, the hush money, all of this, and at the center of this is donald trump. it really is extraordinary to this this man was one president and might be president again. i think that's -- i'm not trying to downplay authoritarian impulse of it -- >> no, no, it's a perfect point. i'm going to jump off it. it's a perfect jumping-off point. i have a question for you. one of the things that came out in the trial is, as trump is trying to get stormy daniels in bed with him, and in her telling, in her sworn testimony, there's not much of a seduction, but the only compliment he pays

her is to say you're just like my daughter. she's too blonde and underestimated. i guess i'm old enough, as rachel said, that would end a candidate's candidacy. and he's still, you know, riding pass and happy with his base. why? >> well, you know, first of all, that was not just cringy, that was deeply creepy, and it's consistent with other things. there's something deeply wrong about this man. this is part of the difficulty of our timeses 'we look at him. and if we recognize how deeply bent this man is, why do other people not see this? why would you entrust this man with power again? why people with traditional values or respect women, how do they listen to something like

that? in your normal life, anyone who compares their daughter to a porn star that you're about to have sex with -- again, there was know seduction, whatever was was consesual or not, i have to admit that even after all these years, nicolle, this is baffling to me, what people are willing to swallow, what they're willing to ignore, what they're willing to try to pretend does not exist. that was an incredibly sleazy moment. maybe it wasn't relevant to the particular case, but it certainly reflects on the character of the man who wants to be the commander in chief. >> well, i think it forces us to say the hard things out lout, paul. one, character doesn't matter in the republican party. it's dead, they don't care about a candidate's character. it doesn't matter to any of

them. it doesn't matter, so it renders everyone in the party who supports him a hypocrite, this is they, too, liken the women they sex with to their daughters. i think it's also time we stop buying into the idea that unless he broke a law, it's not conduct he can be held accountability for. ironically all the laws he will not there will be no trial for the mar alooko documents orred crimes he committed around january 6th. the trial is happening in new york, but it seems every day less likely there would be a criminal trial in georgia, so i wonder when we look at ourselves in the mirror and saying, it's over, guys, it's up to us. does he haved character to watch anyone's dog, let alone carry around the nuclear close. >> that's the national security

peels. it's disgusting, gross, shameful, but it's a national security issue. we're not talking about a political star, but someone who wants to command the military. i don't care. your daughter might be in that military, and this will be her boss. this will be the person deciding the tone for the entire military, for the military justice, we're talking about conduct unbecoming of an officer, this is all caulk unbecoming of an officer, and especially for the commander in chief. it also sets the brand for our country. this is how every single man and woman in uniform around the globe -- anyone who is a private -- that's an important clarifier. if you're still not sure, is this the guy you want commanding your daughter in uniform?

that's ultimately what i think has to be clarified and emphasized, because sometimes it washes over people. if you really boil it down, how do you feel if he's your daughter's boss, that might move some people. let's sneak in a break. no one is going anywhere. when we come back, the disgraced ex-president's authoritarian instinct are on display again, where challenging the results of an election isn't about facts or evident. it's about, quote, following your heart. later in the broadcast, the insane health story that could potentially shake up the presidential race, the startling new reporting that robert f. kennedy,, jr. has a dead worm in his brain. we didn't make that up. you know thinks are bad for governor nome when fox and newsmax have turned on her.

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you have to have fair and free elections. if you don't, you should always have it is right to challenge them. if you couldn't challenge elections you wouldn't have a democracy. you wouldn't have elections anymore. you actually have to follow your heart, do what's right. we're back with an extraordinary group to have this conversation with. ruth, tell me where we are. i mean, there was no evidence of fraud, chris krebs loses his jobs, he's a lifelong

congressman. trump knows there's no fraud, and he's turns to this emotional, if you feel it in your heart, you can't -- what do we do about this at this point? >> that's a challenge. one of the things he's done about bess, i'm just doling what i feel inside is right. he's setting himself up as a sort for morality this is how

thor that's being used by the trump camp, we're seeing this for line 100 yards. it also goes with -- they're like the gestapos, and now he's doubling down, saying he's authentic, doing what's right, so biden and those tro try to stop him by saying. >> i think about this argument and how it fails they sees them as the only choice?

is it because it's so personal? when it comes to things that are less fill, less intimate? >> i any it's definitely a piece of it. i think we've seen remarkable crossover with republicans in critical states that are pupal and red, like kansas, kentucky and virginia, because bodily a ton miss is so very perm. it's also important to know that joe biden has kamala harris as a vp. he's been leading the way on the ponce to dodd, and committed to restore roe, but this is an important fact that i always keep going back to. he was the original author of

the violence against women act. he's been on the forefront of gender equity in 20-plus years. he come across as a then tick. you know who doesn't hate women? the majority of americans led by our current president, joe biden. >> if '16 was about a hidden trump vote that we might have missed, i think 2024 is a hidden male vote for against abortion. i think the margins on the andy democratic measure, you see

support across the board. there's a gender difference sometimes in the exits, because you get the republican women as well, but there's a lot of men who don't want to live in a country where their mothers and daughters and wives go to jail to make a decision. >> i think a lot of them i think it's smart to add to appeal on these issues, and also values. that's the value that biden will be in with. and some of them don't like either one, so you have to get to, like, who is less bad? >> i think trump is playing this card, because he has to. he doesn't have facts, he doesn't have science, so go to your heart. he's talking about

low-information voters, he's going to their fear, their heart. they have kennedy kind of echoing the permanent skepticism. that's the battleground. >> if he can get over the dead worm in his brain. we have some breaking news. moments ago congressman marjorie taylor green originally called for a vote on her motion to vacate the speakership she made the motion with some boos. the house must now vote on the motion in two legislative days. charlie, we've covered a few of these together. there wasn't just the effort to oust mccarthy, which was messy,

but that's the world in which they're living in. >> that's the world they have created. i have to say -- and i'm just -- i'm kind of working this through, because you started this hour by playing that sound bite from mike johnson, where he talked about how congress was going to step in, and i know the democrats have said use their votes to basically save the republicans from themselves. i guess i would throw out the question, do think still really want to do that? at some point, listen to mike johnson over the last 48 hours, at least suggesting they would take some action to defund the prosecution, to make the congress an active player in the obstruction of justice? there's nothing normal about that. he was out also engaging in election denialism, that he's got some gut sense about how

many illegal immigrants were voting. i guess, the question i'm raising is that the republican chaos and extremism is a full display. when your opponent is digging, maybe you ought to step back. he did allow the vote on the foreign aid package, but given the kinds and sound bites over the last several days, i do wonder whether or not this is a moment where democrats want to vote to treat what's happening now as vaguely normal? i'm just not sure. >> i love that you worked that through on live tv. that's why i love having you here. i feel like -- and i've learned a lot of this from ruth, frankly. the brain adapts to political trauma the way it adapts to

personal trauma. >> exactly. >> it makes relative judgments, to relative to marjorie taylor green, because he passed aid to utain, he doesn't seem to monstrous. but his ace one of the architects of the deadly insurrection. he goes around and gets the same members of congress on the very same ballot to say the election was bunk. he's the original sin of the fraud person at a timed -- not on you and me. we believe the saintity of the -- sanctity, but he did one good thing, but he's not a good actor. >> patrick moynihan how we kept adjusting our moral standards to accommodate. we have been through this so much, all of this flood of

craziness and extremism and recklessness that there's a moment when you look and go, okay, mike johnson isn't that bad, but wait, remember exactly the role he played leading up to january 6th. look what he's talking about doing with congress to protect donald trump from legal accountability? look at how he is continuing to spread misinformation about the elections. look, i do understand the case to be made by, we need to have a functional congress. if it had nod been for mike johnson, ukraine would not be getting the aid it is getting. this was a major lift, but i think at this moment, we do need to have this discussion about whether or not we have defined divancy down to the point where democrats are saying, yeah, let's stick with normal, normal being mike johnson. charlie and paul will stick around a bit longer.

minnie and ruth, thank you so much for starting us off. new reporting about a newly disclosed and very serious health issue concerns rfk junior. our dear friend who broke the store for "new york times," will be here after a very short break. stay with us. here after a veryt break. stay with us baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

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extraordinary new exclusive reporting in "new york times" today that could have a profound impact on what's become the status quo in the race for

president. it has to do with the health of robert f. kennedy,, jr., the third-party candidate who stands to siphon votes from both donald trump and president biden, despite -- citing a transcript of a 2012 divorce proceeding, and a recent interview, suzanne craig reports this -- among his previously undisclosed health issues, there was a worm that he said ate part of his brain from the inside of his brain before dying there. doctors thought it was a brain tumor at first. they ares significant regulation in no smart part, because seeing him doing shirtless pushups in jeans as one did, has sought to

portray him as vladimir putin does. indeed, asked if the dead worm in his brain or philosophy his other health issues could promise his -- the spokeswoman for the campaign told "new york times," that is a hilarious suggestion given the competition. suzanne craig with here with us. wow, i knew this was coming. i just knew you had a big scoop today. this is what i read. wow is all i had. i'm dying to heave about this. >> i've been saying wow, going to work on it. it's stunning. how the worm came about in the story i think is fascinating. the fact that the cognitive issues he was experiencing in 2010 may not have been caused by the worm in hi brain.

what happened is, in 2010 he had severe memory loss, severe short and long-term. so he went to the doctor, and he did two things. first of all, he had mercury levels tested, which is not the first thing that moth people to do, but he was an environmental lawyer, and a vaccine skeptic. but then a friend says you should get a brain scan, see if you have a tumor. the year before his uncle ted kennedy had died of brain cancer. he had been operated do you think at duke. he gets a brain scan. his scan is immediately shared with surgeons around the country

who looked at ted kennedy, and they all said it's a brain tumor. he was scheduled for brain surgery. he is packing, booked his ticked to go down to duke, and he gets a called from another doctor in new york, who says, hang on, i don't think you've earned your surgery. what that doctor felt is there was a parasite in his brain, it was the thing that they were seeing had his scans was a parasite, a dead worm. they ended up concluding that was the case. the thing that was complicated when i started reporting this out, i was phoning neurosurge ens, we don't see long and short-term, and it would be multiple parasites that would cause that, so i was sort of

trying to figure that out. normally what happens when a worm dies in your brain, it can live a long time and the brain can adapt, but when it starts to die, it causes inflammation. normally when people show up at the hospital, they're having seizures. this is not something that i can tell from the deposition that bobby kennedy had been through. he didn't say that had happened. the other thing that was going on, the mercury testing showed his mercury levels were ten times the epa recommendation. it wasn't going to kill him, but it was pretty serious. the reason for that, because he doesn't work in a mine, he shouldn't be exposed to mercury at those levels when you think about that, but when i talked to him, he said he was eating tuna fish sandwiches every day, an enormous amount, sushi tuna and

perch, and apparently this is what caused the memory loss that is severe. this is an incredible story, that previously unknown, these two neurological issues going on with him at the time. the concerning thing is you can bounce back from all of this, or you can't. you can have permanent brain damage from both these things. we rear line on him as a narrator to say, if you say he's fine, we have to rely on that. we don't have current medical records. i worked on two presidential campaigns, john mccain was a skin cancer survivors, and doctor gupta went down and spent hours evaluating that. it's the lying and lack of

transparency in terms of what is real, i mean, what is your sense in terms of how this information was received and how the campaign responded about its impact? >> i think people were shocked, not surprising. i mean, it's serious. i think there's concern. i'll leave it to the late-night shows. i don't know, right? and as a reporter, that was a troubling part of the story. we can't say we want antses, has this caused him many problems? we don't know. i think that was what was most troubling about this. their response, we followed up, i asked for all of his medical records. they declined to provide them. the only comment was the one you read, and he recently tweeted out a funny joke about five brain worms, he would still do better in the debates, but he's make light of it rather than who are information.

he has another neurological condition, which is his voice. the problem with his voice is a neurological issue. so he has three neurological issues we now know about, or has had them or has them. he also has afib, a heart condition we learned about in the deposition. it was so serious, he's been hospitalized for it and there's been news reports on it. when you see a news report, you don't know, is this a long-term condition, but he's had afib for years in his heart, and he's been hospitalized for it. we now know hospitalized more times than we thought, because we have this deposition, where he says in one brief period he was hospitalized three or four times. now he says that's also cured. >> i mean, we're sort of down at the bottom of alice in wonderland's lookingglass, looking at rfk and trump, these two embodyments of toxic lies

masculinity, one who takes a walking, talking test, and the other who lied about three health conditions that impede his cognitive abilities, and people are still telling jokes about biden's age? >> brain worms, i did not have that on my bingo card for an election year. it's scary, crazy, but what i'm more worried about is the ideas in his brains and what's coming out of his head consistently. he's not even an independent, let's start with that. we've been covering this for months. he was a democrat last year. so this is an opportunistic move, he as a 9/11 conspiracy persons, and more. and it's not appealing to most

independentic. they want an alternative to trump and biden, but they don't want him. he's polling significantly enough they could sway this election. ultimately i think he'll hurt trump more than biden, but he requires much more examination. >> this is very trump-y. >> it wasn't a lie. these were undisclosed health conditions, and then he talked about them. but we don't know what else could be going on with him or the other candidates. we're relying on them to test for things and relying on them to test it. bobby kennedy will be an increasing part of this discussion, as we move forward. he is getting ballot access across the country. he hopes to be on the ballot in every state, and it's going to be a hard-fought battle for him,

as he moves forward, but he's marching toward ballot access in pretty much every state. he's already secured it in california, michigan, utah, hawaii. >> and you're on the beat. we missed you yesterday on the stormy story, but suzanne, thank you so much for being here. paul, thank you. the hill is currently voting to kill marjorie taylor green's motion to vacate or oust her effort. all of that means marjorie taylor green's bid is likely dead for now. ally vitali will join us next. ally vitali will join us next.

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you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. having your childhood eaten away by hunger is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org, today. if you're keeping score at home, it's speaker mike johnson one, marjorie taylor greene, nothing. the speaker has officially lived to fight another day, the house officially voting to kill marjorie taylor greene's motion to vacate. ally vitali is live on capitol hill for us. ally, what was this about? earlier in the hour we brought the news she had introduced this motion to vacate, something that kevin mccarthy brought us as a country, that it only takes one now. and it's already dead. explain. >> this is how we thought we would be starting the week,

nicolle, with marjorie taylor greene coming into the chamber saying, i'm putting a clock on this, you've got two days to put it on the floor. ultimately what we saw happen here is that marjorie taylor greene, though it's mid wooek for everybody else, it is the end of the legislative week for those on the house of representatives. they cancel votes tomorrow, and marjorie taylor greene came in to cap off the week by saying, here's my privileged motion, and read it on the house floor. she was met with boos from both sides of the chamber. and you see it reflected in the vote total that we saw in just the last minute or so, as they closed out on the house floor, tabling this resolution. to put it in plain terms, the question that was posed to the house of representatives was, do you want to kill this attempt by marjorie taylor greene to oust the speaker? yes or no. the yes votes had it by a large majority. i believe the final total was 359 to 43. the 43 is the number of people

who didn't want to table it, who said, yeah, i want to see us go on to a vote on whether or not mike johnson should keep his job as speaker. although most of those 43 votes were democrats, and that's expected, several of them were also members of this republican conference. it was more than just thomas massie and paul gosar, who were, sort of, the accomplices in marjorie taylor greene's attempt here. we also have people like congressman chip roy who said previously he didn't want to vote to table this because, while he was frustrated with mike johnson and he didn't think a motion to vacate was right, he also didn't think it was right to dispense with this altogether. you've also got people like congressman davidson, who was one of the chief proponents of a fisa speech legislation. that drew ire for the speaker. the top line the speaker mike johnson remains speaker mike

johnson. but at the same time, we'll wait to see what marjorie taylor greene does next here. just because there's a period on the end of this sentence doesn't mean she can't go on to start another one. nowhere in the rules that kevin mccarthy negotiated at the beginning of this congress does it say that you're one and done with your motion to vacate threats. and if congresswoman greene wants to continue down this path, i guess she could. but where this leaves it right now is where we expected it would be, which is that the speaker is safe, that marjorie taylor greene is done, in theory, embarrassed by her conference. and now we'll see what happens with a congress that is really functioning at least in bipartisan tenor of just wanting to be functional. and that's certainly the lesson, as we ended last year and came into this one. >> charlie, ally's exceptional account, marjorie taylor greene could be embarrassed. i would argue she can't be. are you surprised? democrats did, but you and i posited they might not want to do, and they decided to let

speaker mike johnson live to, i guess, get quasi-ousted another day. >> as you know, i have some mixed feelings about all of this. i have to say it is really extraordinary to watch a smackdown for the ages. if marjorie taylor greene was capable of being humiliated, this was really something. as far as i can tell, it took 45 seconds for them to 218 votes to table. i mean, this was -- this was a spanking on the house floor. and really an indication that marjorie taylor greene, i think, is basically reaching her expiration date. i think that members of both parties are just disgusted by her. she, you know, tried to flex some muscles here, and i think she showed exactly how little she actually has. so, again, i have mixed feelings about, you know, defining deviancy down with mike johnson. but to see the complete

rejection and smackdown of marjorie taylor greene, it's worth the price of admission today. >> i will admit that after covering the stormy daniels testimony, spanking isn't the word i have chosen. >> one, the swarm is kind of gathering, and the message from the king, from trump, is attack. attack everything, right? attack the military. >> burn it all down. >> attack the courts, attack each other. that's the message and the campaign coming together. there's another piece, all of them jockeying for his attention because they think they might be his vp. so, they're all pruning. >> kristi noem's dead. >> kristi noem is a great example. she says, trump broke politics. they're trying to out-trump each other. that's transparent and that's what the new normal is going to be for the next couple of months. >> i love all of your clarity.

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it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! . thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi nicolle, thank you so much. we're tracking big legal developments today, including a new delay in trump's federal espionage case over classified documents. the judge giving lawyers what they wanted. then there's the fallout from the damning testimony from the key witness in the new york trial, where one of th